Discussion last night about the new Doctor Who with someone who is a sci-fi geek but not a long term DW fan. Now we all know that the Cybermen came first but are they better?

Opinions please.

Update November 6th 2012: Thank you everyone for your comments over the last seven years. But it looks like an official answer is here in the form of the Assimilation2 comics. So I’m closing comments on this post.


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  1. David Meyer says:

    I would say im pritty impartial when it comes to DW and TNG. I would argue in favour of the Borg. Primarily because they can turn any alien species into a Borg drone, and I dont think the Cybermen can do that, rather I havent seen them do that, and I doubt somehow that they do not have the eniginuity to develop any technology capable of adaption quick enough to match borg technology, the only avantage a cyberman would have on a borg drone is one on one, cyborg on cyborg. if a borg did not have the collective ability to adapt to cyberman technonlogy he would be no match. The cyberman is stronger and has better armor and weapons, and the borg would become a cyberman if he was human.
    The reason I would argue that ultimatly borg would win is because they can adapt to cyberman technology and the space transport is superior to thatof the cybermen

    • nidge says:

      no way dude cybermen all the way,

    • Bobyman597 says:

      Ok, for one, I am a huge fan of BOTH TNG and DW. I believe the Borg would win every time for the following reasons:

      They have the ability to adapt to weapon discharges, no matter what the amplitude. The Cybermen would fire a shot, and the Borg would adapt fast as nothing. This gives them an advantage.

      The Cybermen take a body, and use it as a (dead) hollow, and get absolutely nothing from it (If your talking about the original Cybermen, not from the industries). They gain no information, nor do they add strengh courage or impulse. They are a programmed robotic race. The Borg on the other hand are not completly iscolated in command functions and impulse from one (programmed) leader. The Borg have a leader with courage, nievness, gual, and thought. The leader is a tool of imagionation. It can think like a human. . . Almost.

  2. Dalek Emperor says:

    My brother says that the Borg would win because they “look cooler”. I, personally, think that the Cybermen might lose the battle because the Borg have access to alien spaceships and things. I have only been watching the new DW, and I haven’t seen the Cybermen in spaceships. But, actually, since the Cybermen took over that city in the DW episode, “Doomsday”, I would think that they could get access to millions of codes that they could use to control nuclear missiles. With the nuclear missiles, they could destroy Borg spacecraft. The Borg, however, can transform into many different alien species, which could ultimaetly wipe out the Cybermen. The Cybermen, however, have better armour and weapons then the Borg. I personly think that it would be a tie. But, I’m only 9 years old, so I don’t know anything, do I?

  3. Darkverge says:

    Personally I think the “Parralell Earth Cybermen” would succeed over the Borg. they both work in a single minded network, but the Cybers seem to display more indiduality and strategic ability. Nothing short of alien weapons on Rocket launcher would destroy seeing as bullets just bounce off. The Borg can be killed by bullets (If I remember rightly, Picard killed several with a Tommy Gun in First Contact)

    The Cybermen are generally humans who have had their brains removed and sustained in a metal shell with a coctail of protiens at a consistent temperature. The only way a borg could assimilate a Cyberman would be to penentrate the head, which would ultimately release the chemicals and kill the brain. The Cybermen could possibly Cyberconvert a Borg drone as some parts of a Drone’s body (probably including the brain) would still be organic.

    The Borg do win however where mass numbers and technology come in. There were 5 million Cybermen in “Doomsday”, and I’m sure that the Borg quadtriple that several times over. But the Cybermen look physically strong enough to tear apart a Drone if their lasers and electric attacks fail. But they fell to the Daleks, and I think a Dalek beam could easily overload a Borg’s adaptive abilities.

  4. real cybermen says:

    first of all forget the paralel earth cybermen………….i personally like the borg.i only like star trek when their in it,probally because their simalar to the cybermen.being a original dr who series fan,i would have to say the cybermen would win,they are phsically stronger and the process of cyber conversion is eraversable.borgs could be converted for a start.they also have heavy artillary and better armour,altough i will admit in some stories bullets damage and somtimes kill them,but in other stories bullets are useless……..to any dr who fan who hasent seen any of the origanl series,my advise to you is to watch attack of the cybermen.

  5. Nine of Ten says:

    Species 2 would win because Species 2 ,or “Cybermen” as dubed by your primitive race, has a metal exterior and can adapt rapidly.

    • Steve Pugh says:

      I shouldn’t nitpick, but really,

      The Borg number species in the order in which they encounter them. So, assuming species 1 is the the ur-stock from which the the Borg emerged, species 2 is going to be a species encountered close to the original Borg homeworld (so somewhere in the delta quadrants).

      The Cyberman come from this solar system, on the border of the alpha and beta quadrants. We don’t know when Mondas left the solar system but we know it returned in 1986. How far could it have gone? Over 25% of the way round the galaxy?

      There’s no problem with the timescales as the Borg predate the 20th century (Guinan says they were thousands of centuries old, i.e. over 100,000 years old). This means that Mondas could have left the solar system a long time ago and maybe even circuited the entire galaxy before returning in 1986.

      Now, only the new series Cybermen have an all-metal exterior. The old series versions had an exterior that was a mix of metal, plastics and various fabrics – much like the Borg. The new series Cybermen didn’t exist until the parallel Earth’s 21st century, so can’t be Species 2 given the timescales discussed above.

      As for adapting rapidly, there’s little sign of the Cybermen adapting their technology rapidly. The variations in design are spread over decades or centuries of history. They can improvise tactically at times. However,by the 26th century have been reduced to scattered bands of scavengers in the face of resistance from humans and other organic races.

      In my opinion, the Borg are fearsome en masse, the Cybermen more so one-on-one. A skirmish might favour the Cybermen, a protracted war the Borg.

      I can’t believe I just typed all that.

  6. EightSixEightSeven says:

    The Cybermen have distinct advantages over the Borg in a strategic sense. The collective consciousness and lack of individual autonomy in the Borg is a massive weakness that the Cybermen would exploit. Some types of Cybermen (see “The Wheel In Space” for example) can transmit a mind-control signal that completely dominates the intelligence of any sentient being. It would take for ONE Borg unit to become fall under the influence of Cyber Control for the entire Collective to be brought to a standstill. That one unit would take back to its ship of origin the Cyber Control signal imprints and codes and whatever instructions were given to it by the Cyberman that induced Control and upload them to the Collective. In less than an hour, the entire Collective, every Borg in the universe, would be obeying the same instruction: Surrender.

    Could the Borg win a war against ANYONE with nothing but a word?

    I doubt it.


  7. Saul Valantine says:

    We are the Borg. Resistance as you know it is over. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own.

    Strength is irrelevant. Freedom is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. Strength is irrelevant. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

    • Robert says:

      Being a fan of both DW and TNG, I feel that both Cybermen and Borg have strengths that have been underestimated so far and some weaknesses that have been overlooked. Of course this is because most of us are just fans of one show to the other. My thoughts are as follows.

      Both have a collective mind. The Cybermen being more like individual soldiers instantly able to share strategic data. The Borg being a hive mind with a queen bee making the big decisions. Both have powerful armor, Cybermen metal, Borg adaptive shields. Both have powerful personal weapons.

      So here is how it would play out in my mind. The Cybermen will take an early lead. Their connected individuality allows them to not have a leader to take out. You take out the chief, the next cyberman takes over with already knowing the intel of the former cheif.

      Remember both teams goal is not genoside, so they are both trying to take prisoners.

      The Borg as usual would underestimate the cybermen, which they do to asses strength. That is why Picard could shoot them with bullets. The next wave of Borg would have shields up.

      Cybermen hit you like a division of tanks. They hit hard and fast to intimidate. That is why they would take the early lead.

      However Cybermen don’t adapt aliens. If they did take a human borg, once seperated from the collective, A borg has no memory or connection to the hive mind. So no tactical gain for the cybermen, except another grunt in the ranks.

      When the borg get a cyberman, they would keep it download and absorb all its technology. Thusly, they would now know all the battle strength, locations, battle plans of the cybermen

      The Borg win in the end, for their ability to adapt within short amounts of time, and continuously upgraded collective mind.

  8. Bryan says:

    If you look at Star Trek canon you see that the Borg only engage a species that has something they need or have some use for. In all honesty I don’t see where the Borg could use any Cybermen technology. The Borg are supreme technologically and in their ability to quickly adapt. Their adaptive capability is what makes them such a threat. I have seen here where people say that Borg have been killed with bullets, if you will remember they were on the holodeck so the bullets were actually holograms, not actual bullets. In the end I would have to say that the Borg and Cybermen wouldn’t start to fight to begin with, unless the Cybermen created some sort of groundbreaking technology that the Borg needs. If a fight was to occur I would be more in favor of the Borg winning, just by their adaptive capabilities. Now Borg Vs. Daleks, I would be on the Daleks side, the Daleks are extremely powerful and even managed to create a Void Ship as seen in “Doomsday”. They are unpredicatble and appear where you least expect. Their technology rivals that of the Timelords which I think could very easily wipe out the Borg. So Cybermen Vs. Borg = Borg victory. Daleks Vs. Borg = Dalek victory. The Doctor Vs. Borg = The Doctor.

  9. David Barrow says:

    I believe it would be a ongoing battle. The cybermen would originally win becuase they would turn the borg into cybermen and they have better weapons and armor but eventually the borg would begin to win because they wiuld configure to the cybermen weapons.But then Doctor Who would destroy both of them with the help the Enterprise fleet

  10. Stewart says:

    Didn’t 7 of 9 still have memories of her time int the hive when she was reconverted back to human as well as Picard?

    All the Cybermen would need to do is get one drone upgraded and the Borg would need to do more then just adapt.

    Besides, the Hive Queen isn’t stupid and the Cybermen have attempted diplomacy before and would probably acknowledge the Borg ability to upgrade non human life forms, so the more probably out come would be an alliance would be formed.

    Borg providing intelligence and upgrade capability, Cyberman just smashing their way through the Universe, the Darleks would have to rethink the battle plan a little, and send in 2.

  11. GreenDrake says:

    It is a good question, one that will last forever (or at least until someone decides to make an official publication that can be cited in wikipedia). I suppose it depends on how they are competeing with each other. A direct confrontation with total annihilation as the only goal? or are they competing for thier #1 resource (humans)? I belive that as two cybernetic races that both believe in attaining perfection they will come to a mutual agreement, because we all know that the winning move is NOT to play… in short no matter who wins we lose.

    Oh and if cybermen had the time that the borg had to advance and evolve then yeah they would rival the borg in almost every fashion. I mean come on, I’m pretty sure that the 20th-21st century borg are just as inefficient as the cybermen.

    • GreenDrake says:

      and another thing: the cybermen can assimilate a borg by taking the brain (new DW) but a borg can’t assimilate a cyberman, because there is no tissue, neural pathways, etc. to make their own modifications.

  12. logan says:

    taking everything I know on both species, there will be no winner, in the Doctor WHo episode doomsday the cybermen proposed an aliance with the Daleks, the daleks decided they didn’t want an aliance and proceded to blow up cybermen. Logically the cybermen would propose an aliance with the borg while the borg would want to assimilate the cybermen which without emotions the cybermen would see no logical reason to reject assimilation and may fuse to become 1 new species a borg/cybermen if you will. There is no logical reason for the two to fight.

  13. Keeler says:

    The borg and cybermen and similar in many ways, however have many differences that have to be taken into account. The cybermen only take the brain of a species, they will gain knowledge that way and will have to replicate technology through those means. The borg assimilate the entire body as well as technology, this is not limited to organic tissue as some have said here, borg and inject nanopropes directly into technology,this is seen in many episodes, the only tech they could not assimulate is the bio-ships from species 8472.

    In a conflict this would give the advantage to the borg as they can assimilate the technology of the cyber suit as well as thier ships if we are talking about the new cyberment from the parallel universe. although cybermen have a stronger exoskeleton borg strength is also enhanced, take 7 of nine for exsample.

    Im not saying the cybermen would not have a chance, strategy wise they may be able to out think the borg due to having a data network over a collective mind however the borg queen is no fool and would devise a strategy to counter them, only deception has helped previous crews and thinking on a personal level, the cyber-men would not be able to pull off a stunt like the future Captain Janeway

    In conclusion resistance is futile

  14. Steve Pugh says:

    Thank you everyone for your comments over the last seven years. But it looks like an official answer is here in the form of the Assimilation2 comics. So I’m closing comments on this post.